Holdtight 102

M

Mikerla

I am sure this has been beaten to death but I would like clarity before purchasing SPI Epoxy Primer. I am in the process of having my car Dustless Blasted. 50% Crushed Glass 50% Garnet with Holdtight 102 100"1 in the water and rinse water. I was told by the operator of the DB franchise that is doing this work for me that there is no need to clean the surface after this process for epoxy primer.

In a recent discussion with SPI folks I was told otherwise.
I am just looking for some interaction between SPI and Holdtight 102 that might end up in me not having to do unnecessary work to apply this SPI epoxy primer that is held in such high esteem on the forums compared to the competition. PPG products specifically EPX which was suggested to use by quite a few of my trusted contacts and DPFL.

Can you guys talk to each other and agree on a recommendation for a FAQ answer?

I called Holdtight and they sent me the following information in an email.


"Mike,

The attached documents likely provide more information than you need.

The over-simplified explanation is that HoldTight 102 is an additive that causes
the blasting process to clean much deeper into the profile of the metal to
remove the salts and contaminants that you can't see and that are left behind
when blasting without it. Those microscopic salts and contaminants are what
cause flash-rust. Using HoldTight 102 leaves the metal surface so perfectly
clean that it won't flash-rust for 24 to 72 hours. HoldTight leaves nothing
behind, no film, no residue, and there is nothing to rinse off. It saves time
and money and promotes a stronger bond to the coating that will hold tight, look
better, and last longer. It is non-hazardous and biodegradable.

As I mentioned to you on the phone, Ken: ken.rossy@holdtight.com or Peter:
peter.petkas@holdtight.com are the two people who could get into deeper
technical explanations.

Best regards,

Reese Hazel
Operations Manager
HoldTight Solutions, Inc.
"

I have attached one of the documents that he sent as well.
 

Attachments

  • Application Guide 7.16 FINAL.pdf
    42.9 KB · Views: 143
  • HoldTight PDS 7.29 FINAL.pdf
    52.5 KB · Views: 137
  • HTS Tech Facts 10.16 FINAL.pdf
    49.4 KB · Views: 153
  • HTS Technical Bulletin 8.16 FINAL.pdf
    50.1 KB · Views: 148
Heres my 2 cents worth as we have a lot of people that do dustless blasting.

"First leaves surface perfectly clean??" BS!!!

2nd hold tite 2 is an excellence product as its not an acid.

Here is spi's procedure.
Clean with 700-1, da all outside panels with 80 (Takes 10 minutes)
Clean with 700-1
Shoot epoxy.
Do it their way but when you have an adhesion problem call them.

Perhaps you may want an opinion from PPG or Sikkens also to make a proper decision.
 
I would be more concerned about him using Garnet, than the use of Holdtight 102.
The published tables differ somewhat on the mohs hardness, but these are in the ballpark.
Steel has a Moh rated hardness of 4.5-5
Crushed glass is 5.5-6
Garnet is 7-7.5

I think the Dustless Blasting equipment manufacturers recommend crushed glass, and there are courser grades of glass for heavier steel, so I'm not sure why your guy wants to use Garnet. Garnet is too hard, and I would be afraid of damage to the sheet metal using it.

There is at least one member that has done Dustless blasting with Holdtight
http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/soda-blasting-cars.4446/#post-48907
 
most dangerous blasting out there is dustless blasting. majority of them have no idea what they are doing. they will destroy the car then shrug and leave. they will tell you it's safe because the water keeps it cool.
 
That seems to be the key to getting a good job, anybody can buy the equipment and go in business for themselves. Have to find an experienced blaster, no matter what system is used.
 
most dangerous blasting out there is dustless blasting. majority of them have no idea what they are doing. they will destroy the car then shrug and leave. they will tell you it's safe because the water keeps it cool.

just had that happen to me on a relatively excellent condition 67 camaro hood. Doing a color change on it and it has been painted twice so off to blasting all the parts went, we hand strip the bodies as I don't believe anyone in my area can blast the roof of a car without trashing it.. Guy did a good job on everything else, however when the hood came back I could see the skeleton outlined from the top, hood is trash. Not that big of a loss considering a repro hood is not super expensive, that being said they just said oh well and left and now have to toss an original oem hood in the trash as the amount of bodywork time just doesn't make good math sense. I've had it happen to me on other vehicles as well, and I have now learned that certain parts will not be sent to blasting as nobody seems to want to take responsibility for it even when that particular type of blasting is supposed to prevent it.
 
my media sale company sells the rigs complete. half are to early retirees who think they will make a fortune. they also buy back the rigs after several law suits are filed. even the mfg touts how water prevents warping. i have been at this for years and there are very few medias that will not peen metal . to be honest a 4500psi pressure washer will blow paint off just fine.
 
Roofs, hoods, and deck lids should not be blasted, imo. I've had exactly the same problems as @ExcellencePaint in this regard. Really we hand strip everything except jambs, and even then the blaster can get you in trouble if you use it on the deck lid jamb, for example.
 
Thankfully I've had no issues with any american car deck lids with these wet blasters, but we do alot of older/mid porsches and twice now 2 different companies have ruined the decklid so I've learned on that one to just hand strip, haven't had any hood issues with the porsche hoods as they dont have a center skeleton just an outside rim structure so somehow the metal keeps from getting all wonky, and the porsche fenders are crazy stout and structurally sound so have had no issues with them or doors. But definitely have learned what can and cant be done, I've seen too many warped blasted roofs to ever even consider letting even the best guy around (which there is none around here ) touch the bodies of any of the cars we do. Only parts that are able to be separated from the body.
 
I guess you are talking mostly about 911's, and I would agree that they are stout and lack extensive inner structures on the hoods and deck lids. They are also pretty round, curves help. It's the really flat panels that suffer most in general.
 
I would seriously consider using someone else or a different method Mikerla. 50/50 mixture of glass and garnet tells me the operator is more concerned about life of the abrasive (which is why he is using garnet) than the vehicle he is blasting. Also listen to Shine and Excellence, many of these guys operating these rigs have very little experience blasting cars without doing major damage. Using garnet in the blast mixture tell me this guy doesn't really have the experience with blasting bodies. If you have something of value I'd do some more research before committing.
 
i had something non automotive done dustless a few years back. what a damn mess. never again. it all worked out and everything but the cleanup is horrible. the whole process just makes mud.
 
I agree,stay away from hoods,roofs and deck lids. Like anything, you have to know how to operate it. I love the fact that it NEVER plugs up from any moisture, but I hate when your helmet/ hood is dripping with wet mud and you can't see sh$t. Clean up sucks.

I did a test on epoxy adhesion using Holdtite, I chipped at and bent the metal in half and it didn't let go. Although, I always fill the hopper several times after the blasting with water and holdtite and rinse very well.
 
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