Epoxy

Barry

Barry

Paint Fanatic
Staff member
I had a call from a shop that had been using the epoxy for some time and his question was the epoxy the last two batches seem thinner to me and my brother.
Caught me off guard and I assured him the solids were the same, I started to explain to him all the changes ever made to the epoxy none ever effected solids and as I was telling him the better points he would see with the solvent reduction of Oxsol and 2/3rds of the oxsol is now made up to 2 new o-Voc solvents it hit me like a brick what the was talking about.

Oxsol is heavy and makes anything spray thicker but after it evaporates the solids are the same.
Best example is 4000 vs 4100 clear, same stuff but sprays way different.

Positive points from doing this and some of you may have noticed in the last 5-8 months already.

Reacts better to colder temps.
Out of stickiness faster
Can wet with less wait.
Less likely to be so sensitive to contamination.
Activator does not yellow as bad.

Now where I need you guys opinion is I was going to play with the solvent in the 2100 and 5100, as there is room for improvement with these two clears but now will put that thought on hold.
 
Barry,
I just shot the gallon of white last Wednesday and Thursday and when I mixed it I thought it looked thinner to me. Since it was the first white epoxy I ever ordered I figured it may just have been due to the color.
I mixed everything up and let induce and then shot one coat on the interior of my horse trailer (outside) as soon as the metal temp was over 60 degrees so as to have at least 4 hours of cure time before the temps dropped for the night to 25 degrees. The following day when the temps came back up over 60 I shot the second coat with the induced epoxy that sat in the garage overnight.
I had a couple of small runs which I normally don't get but figured it was the thinner material or the temperature. Everything is cured up fine now and looks great.

By the way, I was glad I used the 1.4 tip as I would have no doubt doubled the runs with the 1.8. LOL
 
i have always found it to be Thin.
would like it to be thicker imo.

but i have not noticed anything(meaning it is getting thinner?
 
I for one dont like product changes. But Barry already knows this. Even if the resin content is the same and solids are the same!!!
If I had my way ( lol ) these products would be just like they were 7 years ago.

The white already sprayed thinner then the black even though the solids are the same..Both of which I can run easily if not paying attention. So if its gonna spray even thinner I say switch it back. PLEASE!!!

I vote for 7 year ago epoxy that people said was too thick. Frickin ridiculous supposedly painters.. Pfffft...How could it ever be too thick. Hell that is what reducer is made for boys ;-)

Barry ole buddy the thicker the better in my humble opinion..Did I mention I vote for thicker epoxy??. lol
 
Barry, what batch was the change made?-just wondering if I've used the newer formulation yet. Still wish there was a higher build version just for surfacing on the higher end jobs where time is permitted but it does work well as is with additional applications.
HOK has had epoxy based primer surfacers for years but durability isn't as good, different resins and weak fillers I bet.
 
This is why I posted the question, I thought I was doing right and more then other companies do since I was tying to improve and not doing it to save money.

The net result of any product when the solvent goes away is all that matters but I understand your statements, no one want to see a change in spraying or handling of a product.

Next project was the 2100 and 5100 but will leave as is and will start taking the attitude
if it ain't broke leave it alone.

Thanks for the feed back.
 
My last gallon of black needed to be reduced for a sealer coat but the white I just shot looked to be reduced already. Just stating for comparison purposes.
 
I posted my reply about 2am and afterwards laying in bed I thought I hope it wasn't misunderstood.

So allow me to further explain for members who Dont know me.

First let me say I know Barry isn't making the products cheaper to increase bottom line. Nor was that ever implied by my post. I just want to make that clear.

I know the products are continually being improved and that's a positive thing and 1 of many things that separates SPI from other company's .
Barry knows how much I love this company's products and how much I want to see him and Andy succeed and grow!!!

Im a dinosaur that doesn't like change or a thinner spraying anything or super fast anything in this industry...

I would look for other feedback ole buddy. U know my stance from one (Nascar) sprayer to another!!
 
in the days before featherfil all we had was lacquer primer. you learn to work the product. as with the epoxy . i let mine set overnight and have no problem what so ever. it build very nice , flashes off and after 24 hour cure i can block and repeat.
anyone thinking you can treat it like high build is pissing upwind.

on the high builds. i honestly think they get more people in trouble than they help. excessive build with a polyester is asking for it.

just my opinion and worth just what you paid for it.
 
Guys again thanks for the input, that was the reason I posted is it dawned on me I might be screwing up and could not blame a painter if he saw a difference and stopped using the product.
After all, this has been going on for years with the majors where the product is cheapened up and why should they not think SPI would not do the same?

This call was not a complaint but general question and like he said both him and his brother had noticed the changes, I said would happen but it did get me thinking!
 
Barryk;18246 said:
Next project was the 2100 and 5100 but will leave as is and will start taking the attitude
if it ain't broke leave it alone.

Thanks for the feed back.
Click to expand...


Somehow I don't believe that line of thinking will stick with you for long.

Long term I believe SPI products will be improved and refined as you discover new ways to make the stuff better, maybe you'll have to be more cautious as to how a certain change to a product will affect its spraying properties so people will not get the stupid idea that the stuff is getting watered down.

Something that I think you have on your side is the open communication you have with many people using SPI on a daily basis, you must get an incredible amount of feedback on your products and that way you will always know of potential issues with the new batches of whatever product you have been trying to improve.

As far as this particular 'issue' with the epoxy, I don't know how much of a pain in the arse it would be for you to slightly increase the solids % so that it sprays a bit thicker and then you won't have anything to worry about, and at the end of the day we all get a better epoxy primer in return.

Personally I hope you never stop on improving your products. But what the hell do I know, it's easy to type stuff from my armchair quarterback position right now.
 
I haven't tried the latest batches. Moving and other stuff has had to way to tied up to even think about paint and body. I know this is an old question asked but just my 2cts. If it got thin the the dp epoxy please don't change a thing. Keep it the way it was (last time i had a chance to spray anything was 2 years ago) I would prefer to have to add some reducer to thin it out then do 3 coats to match what one coat used to.
 
Actually, I thought it was just in my head but I did notice it got thinner and I LIKE it that way! Don't make it thick again... It helps to reduce build thickness which is important to me. Always two opinions on everything eh?
 
dbohemian, it seems to me we want the epoxy to have as high solids (film build) as possible, since it's possible to lower that with reducer, but you can't make it higher! Since some of us use the epoxy as a primer-surfacer some or all of the time, this is an important consideration.
 
I see where you are coming from but Barry's original post said:

Reacts better to colder temps.
Out of stickiness faster
Can wet with less wait.
Less likely to be so sensitive to contamination.
Activator does not yellow as bad.

All seem like good things to me. Seems like he can't really go back and that the viscosity is a result of new and improved solvent type. I guess we can just wait overnight as Shine does and it will thicken. I have done this quite often and notice its quite a bit thicker in the morning. Maybe Barry could make an ultra high solids version for surfacing? Then again another sku to muck up the mix.
 
I hate changes myself, and tend to get a lot of calls if anything changes, but as you just stated, those are all pro's to the product, so not much to really complain about, I noticed it was flashing faster, I thought it was just because of the new central air in the shop.. lol.
 
crashtech;20407 said:
dbohemian, it seems to me we want the epoxy to have as high solids (film build) as possible, since it's possible to lower that with reducer, but you can't make it higher! Since some of us use the epoxy as a primer-surfacer some or all of the time, this is an important consideration.
Click to expand...

Good point, Jon. I will use it either way but I think film build is a good thing and it is already why so many of us love spi epoxy.
 
I just used almost 2 gallons of recently purchased epoxy on a metal project so I suppose I adjusted to any changes made.
It all worked just fine. I don't like changes either if something works well but if Barry changes a product I'm confident it's an upgrade.
 
Barryk;18246 said:
This is why I posted the question, I thought I was doing right and more then other companies do since I was tying to improve and not doing it to save money.

The net result of any product when the solvent goes away is all that matters but I understand your statements, no one want to see a change in spraying or handling of a product.

Next project was the 2100 and 5100 but will leave as is and will start taking the attitude
if it ain't broke leave it alone.

Thanks for the feed back.
Click to expand...

Barry, I believe that the changes you've made have been for the better. The 2100 in particular is head and shoulders better than the old version. The latest Fast activator for the Euro 2020 clear is much improved over the original. I just sprayed a half gallon of it last week and with just a shot of polar was assembling parts in a few hours without printing. Bottom line in my opinion is if you have a way to improve those clears, I say go for it!
 
You have a very good point, we don't like change but when you compare the old to the new with a lot of the products, look at how drastic the improvements have been, think about the flattening agent, which originally just started out as a powder.
 
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