Cut and buff universal clear times

[Chris_Hamilton]

Im having trouble getting a glass finish out of the clear. It seems there is a texture to it when looked under the detail lights.

If the base has any texture to it it will show through the clear. It looks lile texture in the clear but is really the base. Texture also can come from the paper following the peel in the clear instead of leveling it. If your paper feels "stuck" to the surface when hand sanding it is following rather than leveling. Use more water and change paper more often to cure that.

And like Elwood said above you are going to get urethane wave with 5 coats of clear applied. No real way to avoid it. It can also mimic texture and the surface definitely does not look flat when you have the wave. To solve that you need to start with 400-600 on a good block. That's the only way to level it. 800 is marginal for getting the wave out as it tends to follow more than level, especially after a couple of minutes using it.

 

[rdransman]

<snip> Universal really isn't hard to spray.

I'm a one-paint-job-every-5 years hobbyist and even I can spray it. My avatar (picture on the left) is before cut and buff. ...and I shoot it with a Sata 3000B with the dreaded 1.3 nozzle, 4003-4 slow activator, no retarder and no booth. Just be sure to shoot it wet.

 

[AAE]

I'm a one-paint-job-every-5 years hobbyist and even I can spray it. My avatar (picture on the left) is before cut and buff. ...and I shoot it with a Sata 3000B with the dreaded 1.3 nozzle, 4003-4 slow activator, no retarder and no booth. Just be sure to shoot it wet.

Sorry! My questions were for the original poster.

 

[shine]

Peel is shooting too heavy .

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Peel is shooting too heavy .

True orange peel is from shooting it too dry and not enough overlap. Never seen a run with peel in it.

 

[texasking]

After a few days curing outside I cut with 800 then they spray 3 more coats on.

The 800 may be too fine. When flow coating, I usually sand with 400 before 3 more coats. I used 320 dry on one because of really bad wave, then sprayed 3 more coats. Came out really flat. Starting with 1000 on the final sand on that one was all that was needed. Lately, I have been using the Eagle 2500 buflex dry as a final sand before buffing with excellent results.

 

[MJC433]

If the base has any texture to it it will show through the clear. It looks lile texture in the clear but is really the base. Texture also can come from the paper following the peel in the clear instead of leveling it. If your paper feels "stuck" to the surface when hand sanding it is following rather than leveling. Use more water and change paper more often to cure that.

And like Elwood said above you are going to get urethane wave with 5 coats of clear applied. No real way to avoid it. It can also mimic texture and the surface definitely does not look flat when you have the wave. To solve that you need to start with 400-600 on a good block. That's the only way to level it. 800 is marginal for getting the wave out as it tends to follow more than level, especially after a couple of minutes using it.

Thanks for the insight. The base primer is flat and the base is flat also. I started going to 600 on a long hard block after the first 3 coats to get all the wave and ripple out. What’s your experience with the best cure time for this clear before sanding it out with a hard block starting at 600 And working up through to a final finish. I use a scan grip and grips on match and Mirka guide coat and then work up through the grits. But when I do my final buff I can see a texture and in some spots strokes from some of the grits it appears but not necessarily scratches like you would see. This is after about a week after spraying. Setting out side a couple sunny days.

 

[MJC433]

How soon after paint are you sanding and buffing and what grit steps?

 

[rdransman]

Sorry! My questions were for the original poster.

That's OK. I keyed off of your comment to help the original poster.

 

[MJC433]

Has great gloss and looking down it and straight in there is a mirtor reflection. But in te fluorescent lights it has a fuzzy grain texture appearance to it. No scratches can be seen. Could it be a solvent issue inside the clear that is nit letting it finish out like glass? Is there always a light texture to this product when under detail lights?

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Is there always a light texture to this product when under detail lights?

Shine mentioned it in this post:

Cut and buff universal clear times

New guy here, the resto shop I work at was looking to try a new clear and with my urging we just started using/trying Universal. All I do is cut and buff the paint at the shop and am not the painter. I work closely with him and try to help as much as I can. We have a quote beside our booth...

www.spiuserforum.com

Depending on how much speed and pressure and the fact that you started with a foam pad instead of a wool pad you may have burned it which would give you that light texture, almost a grain like appearance. The speed and pressure that you have to use when using a foam pad on the initial buff is what can cause it. A wool pad on the initial buff is actually much easier on the clear and is faster.

If you think that's the case, try on a fender going over it with 3000/5000 Trizact or the new 8000 Trizact(3000/8000) on the DA and then re-buff. The white foam pad should be OK to start but if you have or can get a wool pad like spec'ed in this thread that would be better.

 

[shine]

shoot a test panel to buff on . sand it 100% flat down to 3000 . then take a foam pad and compound and buff the crap out of it at high speed. when your done it will be slick and shiny but also look like fine grain leather . urethane can be melted with a buffer . once you do this you will understand about excessive heat caused by a buffer and your finish work will improve 100% . i polish at slowest speed and take my time. wiping the panel with a damp rag helps a lot . i never polish with an empty pad .

 

[MJC433]

Shine mentioned it in this post:

Cut and buff universal clear times

New guy here, the resto shop I work at was looking to try a new clear and with my urging we just started using/trying Universal. All I do is cut and buff the paint at the shop and am not the painter. I work closely with him and try to help as much as I can. We have a quote beside our booth...

www.spiuserforum.com

Depending on how much speed and pressure and the fact that you started with a foam pad instead of a wool pad you may have burned it which would give you that light texture, almost a grain like appearance. The speed and pressure that you have to use when using a foam pad on the initial buff is what can cause it. A wool pad on the initial buff is actually much easier on the clear and is faster.

If you think that's the case, try on a fender going over it with 3000/5000 Trizact or the new 8000 Trizact(3000/8000) on the DA and then re-buff. The white foam pad should be OK to start but if you have or can get a wool pad like spec'ed in this thread that would be better.

Ive used foam in many finishes and had great results. I usually only ever go 1000-1400 from and dont create much pressure and heat. I have multiple wool pads here of different makes, but i prefer foam as it is not half as messy and has a deliberate edge you can watch. Our shop is usually packed with builds so having wool fiber and compound everywhere to clean up was another big reason i like foam. At this point im willing to try anything. My next two cars are a $3 mill original big block cobra we are doing a concourse resto and repainting original Acapolco blue and a Gt40 gulf replica.

 

[MJC433]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate everyones help.

 

[EddieF]

Mjc, orange, white, black pads i used are hex logic, learned from forum a few yrs ago. They're good.
I use sizes 6" & smaller cause i 1 hand it & small pads don't sling stuff around as much.

 

[RosharonRooster]

I experienced the same fine-grained look on my car after buffing it. Actually a couple months after. I re wet sanded with 2000 and 3000 and buffed it and it cleared up. I dont know what caused it but after a couple years I've learned could be a number of things. Basecoat primer. Who knows. Sometimes I think we (by we I mean people who are chasing perfection) are our worst critics. Sometimes our only critics because I try and explain to people what I'm seeing and they tell me that it looks great. I would like to add that the wool pad with the 3d aca 500 takes put 3000 grit effortlessly. And I follow up with sonax on a foam pad. Then menzerna on a black foam pad. I use a Dewalt rotary at 1800 ram. I think the da buffing method is good if u want to clean up or polish a new car on the weekend but I think a rotary method is a must. I've also learned that its sometimes takes different lighting to see missed spots when buffing. A combination of led. Fluorescent. Noontime sunlight and then dusk time light as well. Just some observations I've collected along the way.

 

[MJC433]

I experienced the same fine-grained look on my car after buffing it. Actually a couple months after. I re wet sanded with 2000 and 3000 and buffed it and it cleared up. I dont know what caused it but after a couple years I've learned could be a number of things. Basecoat primer. Who knows. Sometimes I think we (by we I mean people who are chasing perfection) are our worst critics. Sometimes our only critics because I try and explain to people what I'm seeing and they tell me that it looks great. I would like to add that the wool pad with the 3d aca 500 takes put 3000 grit effortlessly. And I follow up with sonax on a foam pad. Then menzerna on a black foam pad. I use a Dewalt rotary at 1800 ram. I think the da buffing method is good if u want to clean up or polish a new car on the weekend but I think a rotary method is a must. I've also learned that its sometimes takes different lighting to see missed spots when buffing. A combination of led. Fluorescent. Noontime sunlight and then dusk time light as well. Just some observations I've collected along the way.

Thanks. I use a dewalt as well with aca .I use a scangrip sps7 3000 lumen that mimics all sun shades of the day and a rack of fluorescents. Nothing gets out of here with a hair on it, but at this level of restoration thats what the customer deserves. However ive not been able to get this light fuzz out of this product.
Ive even tried going up to 5000 , but no change. Its like there is a die back through the entire thickness of the clear. Like I said it looks fantastic at the typical side angle shot and outside that everyone posts to show off their paint or gloss, but it wont go away with any amount of sanding or buffing.

Is it too soft yet to get that last level of gloss out of it?

 

[AAE]

I would suggest having your painter talk to Barry. Go through his entire process from the beginning. He's gotta be open to being told that things may have to be done in a different way. Make sure he has a long time to talk to Barry. He'll learn more in an hour than he would in a week at training.

The Universal has been around for a long time and has won several national awards. It's a top quality product.

 

[MJC433]

I would suggest having your painter talk to Barry. Go through his entire process from the beginning. He's gotta be open to being told that things may have to be done in a different way. Make sure he has a long time to talk to Barry. He'll learn more in an hour than he would in a week at training.

The Universal has been around for a long time and has won several national awards. It's a top quality product.

He has talked to him about the paint and is getting it better. Barry says sand to 1500 then buff at 3000 with wool, those are Samurai skills I do not posses. Haha

 

[AAE]

Hmm, I've reached the end of my limited knowledge.
I'm curious, what air cap is he using on that LPH400? What pressure? Maybe it's in a previous post and I missed it.