Cut and buff universal clear times

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MJC433

Promoted Users
New guy here, the resto shop I work at was looking to try a new clear and with my urging we just started using/trying Universal.

All I do is cut and buff the paint at the shop and am not the painter. I work closely with him and try to help as much as I can. We have a quote beside our booth from the movie Gladiator that reads “ whatever comes out of these gates you must deal with”. Its been challenging with the new stuff for sure.

Im having trouble getting a glass finish out of the clear. It seems there is a texture to it when looked under the detail lights.

After a few days curing outside I cut with 800 then they spray 3 more coats on. Cure again a few days then use a 11” durablock with 600 to get rid of peel and wave ( painter getting lots of peel even with exact adjustments recommend for the gun but he is working on it) then 1000, 1500, 2000,2500, 3000 and buff. I use rotory on 1000-1400 rpm with 3m white foam and 3D ACA compound.

is there something in my process or technique that is not correct? Need to cure more in between these steps?

Any help and criticism is invited. Thanks.
 
Universal buffs like butter for a long time! If he's getting peel and wave it's because he doesn't have his settings right. The wave is from trying to put too much on in too short of a session.
Ask him to test his settings by spraying a quick squirt of material on some masking on the wall. But, have him turn the air cap so it sprays horizontal.
What gun and size needle is he using? Universal is really high solids. It's a different animal. Once you tame it, it'll be man's best friend.
 
AAE said:
Universal buffs like butter for a long time! If he's getting peel and wave it's because he doesn't have his settings right. The wave is from trying to put too much on in too short of a session.
Ask him to test his settings by spraying a quick squirt of material on some masking on the wall. But, have him turn the air cap so it sprays horizontal.
What gun and size needle is he using? Universal is really high solids. It's a different animal. Once you tame it, it'll be man's best friend.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. He is running Barrys recommended settings on an Lph 400 . 1.4 tip.
He is getting it better each time but its at a cost of time and money to get the stuff flat flat.

The bigger issue for me is the end result; I am not able to get a finish without some type of micro texture.
 
Barry said:
Foam will never work on step number one of buffing.
Use wool cutting pad at 3000 rpm, get all the scratches out, and then foam at slower speeds.
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Thank you.
Do you have a specific pad and compound that you use recommend for universal clear specifically?

Are my grits what everyone else is having success with?
 
I use a 3M double sided wool pad with the aca 500 at about 1800 rpm. The longer you can wait and the more sun it gets before buffing, the better. Universal is very soft, and takes a little less"aggression" than most clears, for me.
 
MJC433 said:
Thank you.
Do you have a specific pad and compound that you recommend for universal clear specifically?
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texasking said:
I use a 3M double sided wool pad with the aca 500 at about 1800 rpm. The longer you can wait and the more sun it gets before buffing, the better. Universal is very soft, and takes a little less"aggression" than most clears, for me
Click to expand...
texasking said:
I use a 3M double sided wool pad with the aca 500 at about 1800 rpm. The longer you can wait and the more sun it gets before buffing, the better. Universal is very soft, and takes a little less"aggression" than most clears, for me.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Do you start at 600 grit on hard block?
 
MJC433 said:
Thanks for the reply. He is running Barrys recommended settings on an Lph 400 . 1.4 tip.
He is getting it better each time but its at a cost of time and money to get the stuff flat flat.

The bigger issue for me is the end result; I am not able to get a finish without some type of micro texture.
Click to expand...
I always say that you can get a professional painter from this forum go in your booth, set your gun the way they spray, and it does not mean that a different painter is going to spray glass. Overlap, flash time, if it goes on too heavy, 30 minutes may not be enough. I hear alot of painters saying that your flash time means that the coat actually feels dry before you put on the next and humidity, temperature, all play a part.

Have you ever tried buffing what he did with the first three coats? Has he ever tried to just lay down the 5 same day and you cut and buff that? When is he starting the clear? Does the base set overnight or is the hosing starting same day? The texture could be coming from the basecoat if it does not set up. Its not popping solvents, but still can create worse texture.

I mean, I am from Chicagoland, and the let it sit outside stuff just does not work for me, dust dirt, birds, unexpected rains, I just cannot get around that stuff. I also feel there is a trade secret with universal that includes the retarder, since there is no reducer recommended, and those are the absolute best jobs. Universal is a great clear, a heavy solids clear and when the secret is found its incredible. But it is also not for everybody.
 
Thanks for the replies. My question is that after 3000 grit Should I need the heaviest compound and most aggressive pad to get rid of the marks from the 2500 -3000 with this clear?

in that case do ai need to even go to 2500-3000 if im using wool and 1800 ?

Just wandering , as Ive used a flex orbital on other materials after 3000 with no visual texture left.
 
I do all grits by hand including 3000, hard blocks till 1500 or 2000. Can almost shine it by rubbing with finger.
I use orange pad with either v32 or cutmax & white or black (usually black) & v36.
The 1 time i tried cheap wool pad it looked like Shine said.
Never orbital. Waste of time.
Side note- had dr appointment so did all cutting to avoid dirt scratches & buffed that area to get door panel on.
 

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MJC433 said:
Thanks for the replies. My question is that after 3000 grit Should I need the heaviest compound and most aggressive pad to get rid of the marks from the 2500 -3000 with this clear?

in that case do ai need to even go to 2500-3000 if im using wool and 1800 ?
Click to expand...
In my experience yes and yes, especially if you put it in the sun. YMMV…..

I also use Chemical Guys pad lube when using foam pads.

Don
 
anotheridiot said:
I always say that you can get a professional painter from this forum go in your booth, set your gun the way they spray, and it does not mean that a different painter is going to spray glass. Overlap, flash time, if it goes on too heavy, 30 minutes may not be enough. I hear alot of painters saying that your flash time means that the coat actually feels dry before you put on the next and humidity, temperature, all play a part.

Have you ever tried buffing what he did with the first three coats? Has he ever tried to just lay down the 5 same day and you cut and buff that? When is he starting the clear? Does the base set overnight or is the hosing starting same day? The texture could be coming from the basecoat if it does not set up. Its not popping solvents, but still can create worse texture.

I mean, I am from Chicagoland, and the let it sit outside stuff just does not work for me, dust dirt, birds, unexpected rains, I just cannot get around that stuff. I also feel there is a trade secret with universal that includes the retarder, since there is no reducer recommended, and those are the absolute best jobs. Universal is a great clear, a heavy solids clear and when the secret is found its incredible. But it is also not for everybody.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed reply. Base sits over night. We would like to just do 5 coats and sand up through. Is there a possibility that we cant sand and buff this texture out? Is there a secret percent to the retarder? I see guys mention the retarder alot to get it glass flat.
 
EddieF said:
I do all grits by hand including 3000, hard blocks till 1500 or 2000. Can almost shine it by rubbing with finger.
I use orange pad with either v32 or cutmax & white or black (usually black) & v36.
The 1 time i tried cheap wool pad it looked like Shine said.
Never orbital. Waste of time.
Side note- had dr appointment so did all cutting to avoid dirt scratches & buffed that area to get door panel on.
Click to expand...
Thanks. What is part number for orange pad? It seems as if its too soft to sand up through without leaving sanding grooves. It looks like a mirror at certain angels but others it has a texture to it that we cant seem to sand or buff out
 
MJC433 said:
Thanks for the detailed reply. Base sits over night. We would like to just do 5 coats and sand up through. Is there a possibility that we cant sand and buff this texture out? Is there a secret percent to the retarder? I see guys mention the retarder alot to get it glass flat.
Click to expand...
I dont have any of those answers, I just thought more people would comment on how it was applied opposed to you trying to find a way to get all the problems out. The Gladiator quote just has me remembering so many times we just got a bad paint job and the painter was never the one to blame. If there is a secret percentage, nobody has shared it with me yet. To me its simple math, probably the heaviest, densest solid clear out there is not going to spray like clears that look like water.
 
Do a search on here about wall air pressure. Also it's possible to put wave in the clear by improperly sanding it. Not saying that's what is happening here but lots of people don't know it can be done. Peel is normal and no way to not have it unless you run it off in the floor lol. The severity of peel can be diminished but you will have some. Car manufacturers spend millions on spray equipment and haven't eliminated it.
 
You gotta give all of the pertinent info.
What the material flow is set to, fan setting and air pressure, what activator? What's the booth temp? How far from the panel does he usually spray from?
What is he accustomed too before trying Universal?
Universal really isn't hard to spray.
 
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