Color Matching Epoxy Primer

P

Porsche 356

I have been working on a 1961 Porsche 356 off and on for over a year now and have completed all body work blocked the car and have sprayed two coats of SPI black epoxy primer on the car. The primer has been drying for over a month. My local paint supplier showed me a Valspar epoxy color chart (sorry SPI) and one of the colors is almost a dead ringer for the topcoat color. I thought that this would be a great base for the topcoat because if the paint chips it will show the same color as the topcoat. The car is going to be red.

I would appreciate feedback on this idea and the Valspar epoxy primer (is it any good).

Thanks
 
Whatever you think is best color to use.
I have always said the worst epoxy you can make is 10 times better than the best urethane primer you can make.
 
ksungela said:
Wow, there's that much of a difference?
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There is no formula for figuring so who knows could be 5 times or 15 times depending on the type of tests you run.
The exception is the hybrid filling epoxy's better they fill worst they are.

My point is he's not killing himself using it for color but why on that has me scratching my head.
 
Paint is not going to chip off the epoxy anyhow....unless it's a completely shite basecoat, or you shot the base over cured epoxy. Anyways a 1961 356 is worth using the best on it not Valspar.:rolleyes: Money car like that I'd be using SPI for the epoxy....(factory in 61 didn't put a colored primer on it why would you?) Glasurit for the basecoat followed up with SPI UV clear.....or Glasurit single stage. Glasurit has the closest matching formulations for European cars especially Porsches. Spend the money your car is worth it.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Paint is not going to chip off the epoxy anyhow....unless it's a completely shite basecoat, or you shot the base over cured epoxy. Anyways a 1961 356 is worth using the best on it not Valspar.:rolleyes: Money car like that I'd be using SPI for the epoxy....(factory in 61 didn't put a colored primer on it why would you?) Glasurit for the basecoat followed up with SPI UV clear.....or Glasurit single stage. Glasurit has the closest matching formulations for European cars especially Porsches. Spend the money your car is worth it.
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Chris,

Thank you for your input. It sounds like the best way to paint the car is to seal with SPI epoxy and paint within the recommended wait time (60 minutes), correct? Is black a good color to go under a dark red, or is one of the other SPI colors better. I have a PPG formula from Wilhoit Auto Restoration for the paint.
 
Hope I didn't come across too harsh 356...:) First thing I would do if I were you is to read this....https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect-paint-job. That should answer most questions you would have. As for color I would use the SPI Gray Epoxy and blend it with some SPI White Epoxy to get a slightly lighter gray. Black as a sealer under a red car would be a no no as it'll darken the color significantly. All depends on the color you are spraying. If it's more of a true red than you want a light gray sealer underneath. If you want it darker than use a darker sealer. As for the formula I was a PPG guy for many years. DBC is a pretty good basecoat, but it's not the best out there. I also shot Glasurit for a few years and I'll put the quality of Glasurit right up there with any Base made today. Also if you have a solid color they have an excellent single stage that will look very authentic on a car like yours. Like I said they have the closest most authentic formulations available for Classic Porsches.
Visit this page, fill in the info and you'll see the available formulas. I'm guessing it is Rubinrot or Signalrot which is a medium red.
http://color-online.glasurit.com/CCC/new/index.php
 
I'll admit when I first thought over my project I thought it would be a good idea to have color matched sealer, or even black. At the time I was thinking it over, I honestly had no idea what I was thinking (its a common problem for me, LOL), its just seemed like something that made sense when I thought about it. That way if you get a chip you dont notice it as bad if the sealer below matches. The problem with that kind of thought is like what Chris mentions, sealer affects the shade of your base coat. I think the best thing to take away from this process is to use a high quality epoxy sealer like SPI, and go with the best color suited for how you want your base to look, and forget about chips. If you do happen to get a chip mix a little base and activated clear together and touch them up, then it matches and seals the damaged area up to protect it.
 
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My take, I have experience with the original red on this car and it is a very good covering color IF you use a quality base.
Like my reds, they will cover the gray or white on first coat with 95% hiding.
With that red, you could use the SPI red epoxy as a sealer if you want or the gray for two coats for full coverage and a third coat for fun or just to make sure you will have no surprises.
Any company that tells you-you need a colored sealer for that color, tells me you need to either run screaming or go to a better base.
Black, no way I would ever recommend that on this red.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Hope I didn't come across too harsh 356...:) First thing I would do if I were you is to read this....https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/perfect-paint-job. That should answer most questions you would have. As for color I would use the SPI Gray Epoxy and blend it with some SPI White Epoxy to get a slightly lighter gray. Black as a sealer under a red car would be a no no as it'll darken the color significantly. All depends on the color you are spraying. If it's more of a true red than you want a light gray sealer underneath. If you want it darker than use a darker sealer. As for the formula I was a PPG guy for many years. DBC is a pretty good basecoat, but it's not the best out there. I also shot Glasurit for a few years and I'll put the quality of Glasurit right up there with any Base made today. Also if you have a solid color they have an excellent single stage that will look very authentic on a car like yours. Like I said they have the closest most authentic formulations available for Classic Porsches.
Visit this page, fill in the info and you'll see the available formulas. I'm guessing it is Rubinrot or Signalrot which is a medium red.
http://color-online.glasurit.com/CCC/new/index.php
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Chris,

I did not think your reply was harsh. I want to thank you a Barry for the epoxy color advise. The closest Glasurit deal to me is about 75 miles away. What do you think about Sinkens or Spies Hecker?

If I may I have another question about a problem I recently saw when a friend painted a 1956 Porsche 356. He paint the car in pieces just like I do, body then doors, hood, deck lid, etc. and the car was two different shades. Same paint, same gun, however, two different days. Body first day and the rest on the second day. What could have caused this? I would like to know so I do not make the same mistake. He was using PPG waterborne base coat.
 
Spies, standox, glasuirt, DeBeers, Auto Art all very good choices.
I would have to assume your friend's car was a metallic or heavy pearl color and yes that can and will happen.
 
Porsche 356 said:
Chris,

He paint the car in pieces just like I do, body then doors, hood, deck lid, etc. and the car was two different shades. Same paint, same gun, however, two different days. Body first day and the rest on the second day. .
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This happens a lot when you use paint from the same gallon can.
You just can't keep it stirred enough to keep the first half from being different than the
second half. Some colors are real bad about this.
When I get a gallon, or 2 to 3 quarts, I mix them all together real good and immediately
pour the entire batch into separate quart cans.
This assures each quart is the same and less "settle out" is a problem.

There are a lot of variables to affect the color, but you have to have consistent color first.
When painting separate panels always make note of gun settings, PSI and no. of coats.
Keep everything as close to the same as possible, and even then it can bite you.
 
Sealer will only affect the final color if full coverage is not achieved. Every paint job should have a sprayout done on a black and white test panel to determine number of coats needed. Tinted sealers are only required where full coverage is impractical (5+ coats of base).
 
jcclark said:
This happens a lot when you use paint from the same gallon can.
You just can't keep it stirred enough to keep the first half from being different than the
second half. Some colors are real bad about this.
When I get a gallon, or 2 to 3 quarts, I mix them all together real good and immediately
pour the entire batch into separate quart cans.
This assures each quart is the same and less "settle out" is a problem.

There are a lot of variables to affect the color, but you have to have consistent color first.
When painting separate panels always make note of gun settings, PSI and no. of coats.
Keep everything as close to the same as possible, and even then it can bite you.
Click to expand...


I forgot to mention that the problem car was a solid color. A dark blue.
 
Chris_Hamilton said:
Paint is not going to chip off the epoxy anyhow....unless it's a completely shite basecoat, or you shot the base over cured epoxy. Anyways a 1961 356 is worth using the best on it not Valspar.:rolleyes: Money car like that I'd be using SPI for the epoxy....(factory in 61 didn't put a colored primer on it why would you?) Glasurit for the basecoat followed up with SPI UV clear.....or Glasurit single stage. Glasurit has the closest matching formulations for European cars especially Porsches. Spend the money your car is worth it.
Click to expand...


Chris,

You mentioned above that painting over cured epoxy may cause chipping. I am going to assume that the basecoat will have poor adhesion. If the cured epoxy is sanded will that be ok or is sanding and sealing with epoxy waiting two hours and then topcoat the best? I am going to have to let the car sit before I can paint it. I appreciate all the help I am getting. I want this job to look great!
 
Porsche 356 said:
Chris,

You mentioned above that painting over cured epoxy may cause chipping. I am going to assume that the basecoat will have poor adhesion. If the cured epoxy is sanded will that be ok or is sanding and sealing with epoxy waiting two hours and then topcoat the best? I am going to have to let the car sit before I can paint it. I appreciate all the help I am getting. I want this job to look great!
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The best example is buying a new e-coated panel and sanding it and basing, it has been tried by production shops over the years and yes the base will stick but be very problematic for stone chipping and that is why they scuff and reseal first.
So if going to set a while I would scuff and do a sealer coat of epoxy day before base.
 
I had to recently strip a hood down to metal that was based directly on top of the e-coat with no sealer. Stone chips all over and the paint was falling off.

For the cost of sealer, its really dumb idea to not seal!

As far as tinting the sealers. The only system I personally have ever used that suggested tinting the sealer is NASON. after using that shit ass base and its lack ov coverage, I understand why they suggest tinting their sealer.
 
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