Clear is Cloudy

P

Polish Painter

Painted a gold dodge intrepid in pieces. Painted it black, black epoxy sealer , base coat , 4 coats SPI Clear. Wet sanded 1000, 1500, 3000.
Compound wool, 3m compound . Sure Finish foam cutting pad , black waffle pad dark glaze, blue foam 3m ultrifina. Turned out beautiful.

Car was picked up 6 weeks ago , owner calls and says roof, hood and some of the quarters looking a little cloudy now. He noticed yesterday . I will look at car in a few days .
Possibly solvents escaping and now showing up ?

I told him not to wax for 3 months, hopefully no car cover put on . Hopefully a good buffing should take care of this ?? I reduced clear maybe 5%. I have heard to use a 50/50 alcohol water mix in between compounding steps to see what you really have because some compounds and polishes have fillers in them ?
Any advice appreciated .
 
Not real unusual for this to happen, the correction is just hit with the buffer and a medium compound to get the solvents out of the clear.

Causes:
Waxing to soon.
Solvents trapped in base.
Solvents trapped in first coat of clear.
Compound used was high in glaze and buffed to slow rpm or using to much compound and glaze was not burned off and filled minor scratches and now glaze is wearing off.
 
Sounds like die back from solvents. I keep the isopropyl away from fresh clear as I've found it dulls the shine and I think it delays the cure on urethanes. Some of the urethane seam sealers also have warnings to avoid using alcohol cleaners as it affects the cure-no idea why. Some simple Dawn dishwashing soap is good for removing the glaze/fillers in compound and splatter residue.
 
I just did an overall on a Jeep, all black and the same thing. was buffed and looked really good, a week in the sun and some cloudy spots showed up in the clear. Buffed out very easily, no sanding.
 
good point bob. in a pinch one time i used the sikkens anti static degreaser to smooth out some seam sealer...boy was that the wrong thing to use as it is made up of a lot of alcohol. it eventually cured enough to paint about a day later.

i try to incorporate water with my 2nd compounding on a white pad....helps remove the compound residue from the initial buffing...then rinse with dawn/water and check for any missed spots. the water helps keep the panel cool also on that 2nd round. buddy of mine uses cornstarch to remove the residue.....hes pretty oldschool. stuff clouds up everwhere though lol.
 
bmenard;7194 said:
I just did an overall on a Jeep, all black and the same thing. was buffed and looked really good, a week in the sun and some cloudy spots showed up in the clear. Buffed out very easily, no sanding.
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Blacks, dark blues and dark greens are the worst for doing this and they normally take three days to two weeks for the solvents to come out and then the clear fogs, reason is the carbon makes these colors twice as slow to cure as other colors.
Waterborne black where they may use burnt bones instead of carbon does not have this problem.

That is why when doing custom or show work, shops will always let the black base set overnight before clearing.

To correct, just use a medium cutting pad with a medium or say a 1500 compound and polish out, if possible it is best to drive the car a month, just to make sure all the solvents are out before buffing, if you can.
Otherwise, you could end up buffing again don the road.
 
The waterborne wax and grease remover is alcohol based, correct? What precautions need to be taken when using this product on fresh base or clear?

Lets say one day after spraying I wanted to sand out some trash before more coats. Should I use W&G remover for cleaning or just rinse with water and tack off?
 
strum456;7198 said:
The waterborne wax and grease remover is alcohol based, correct? What precautions need to be taken when using this product on fresh base or clear?

Lets say one day after spraying I wanted to sand out some trash before more coats. Should I use W&G remover for cleaning or just rinse with water and tack off?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any problems using the waterborne wax and grease remover on anything, but I did have straight alcohol loaded in a sprayer once and grabbed it by mistake when colorsanding a bedside-it fogged the clear before I could wipe it all off-actually seemed to soften the surface of the clear. I baked the panel and saved it but now I know. I have used the waterborne cleaner between rounds of clear many times and never had any problems-maybe the other ingredients and mix ratio makes it work so well. Never any problems wiping basecoat with the waterborne but it's rarely needed unless some heavy sanding has been done and the surface is fingerprinted, bodyoils, etc..
 
No really a concern because of the other solvents in the wax and grease remover, the way it is set up the alcohol is more of a dryer then a cleaner.

I have used it on fresh wet sanded clears myself and could not guess how many times, never seen an issue, if the clear was an hour or two old, maybe you could but I have done that also.
 
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This is what the hood looked like when it left my house.
 
Have not seen them yet, guy picked the car up about 6 weeks . Still owes me $1850 dollars but called to complain that he just noticed cloudiness.

I told him when he drops the car off to be rebuffed , bring a check. Have not heard from him . He works at the same company I do but dont see him on a dailey basis.
I let 6 weeks go by to see how long he would wait . I finally called him .

The total price was $2500, paint the car in pieces , repair dents, paint body kit. He removed and installed everything. I told him if he needed a few paydays let me know, he responds " sounds good to me " .

I have never had anyone not pay me , but could be a first ???
 
Can't beat the DOI of that SPI clear, looks nice. I'd be willing to bet it's not cloudiness he sees but rather some fine surface scratches if he's washed it numerous times while it's fresh-it takes awhile to cure up for the final polish and we all know how black shows everything. A lighter color and he probably wouldn't have noticed a thing. Keep us updated, nice work, Bob
 
This don't sound good, not to be negative but over the years have seen many of times where oh, this is wrong so I don't need to pay.
It always happens in cases like this where he got an $8000 job for $2500, always.

If it was cloudy on a job looking that good, he would have brought it back, as soon as he was off the phone.
After two weeks he won't let you see it? Nasty deal.

Have we ever discussed what a drop of paint stripper in the center of a panel will do? Might be a good thread sometime.
 
ok barry , if we're gonna get mean i'll let you in on my favorite. take a pint milk carton , fill it with stripper and set it on the roof. yes i have done this and more than once. just dont leave any prints .... :)
 
Only had the issue one time, it was in 1976, I was only doing vettes and Mercedes, I had done a 280SL for a lawyer and his neighbor called and said he had a 72 camaro Z he wanted done, I advised him I don't do camaros, well he wanted me to look at it.

It had 20,000 mile and a flawless factory job but he wanted it to look like his neighbors Mercedes, so for a scuff and paint I said $4500 and he advised me he had a handful of estimates for $800-1200 at least a dozen times and at least a dozen times I said that is where you should take it.

A day later he wanted to schedule it and then got pissed off because it would be six weeks before I could get it in, so he dropped it off on a Sunday and the next Saturday he came to pick it up, it was perfect, four coats of lacquer and about 7 coats of clear with normal wet sanding in between. (all PPG)

I had a bad gut feeling, so I bought a little quart squeeze bottle and filled it with stripper and sat it by the garage door.

Sure as can be him, his friend and his kid, came and spent 30 minutes looking over every square inch of the car and all they would say is something just don't look right but I will give you $1200. I said any flaws will be fixed and I got a roll of tape and gave it to them and said mark any flaws--NONE.

Now we have been looking at the car for an hour and a half, I grabbed the stripper bottle and said, lets make a decision right now, you do not need to pay if you are not happy but you will not get a free or discounted job, so I will give the car a squirt of this paint stripper and you can take it to the place of your choice or pay.

He paid in $100 bills, the art of negotiation!

Two years later he called and wanted me to paint his wifes Grandprix, I said no thanks.
 
learned the lesson the hard way. car leaves only after final payment. no matter what. friend or not. also storage fees start racking up after 30 days of no payments. climated controlled storage? not cheap.

business is business.
 
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