Catalyzed Base Coat????

B

Beobob

I have read where a lot of people suggest adding hardener to the base coat to improve adhesion and long term durability. But no one seems to discuss what kind of hardener or how much to use.

For my current project will I will be using House of Kolor Apple Red Kandy base coat (KBC-11), Jet Black (S2-25), and Planet Color Extra Silver Metallic (PC2710). Looking at the data sheets from HOK there is no mention of adding hardener. Data sheet for the Planet Color is unavailable.

Any idea if adding hardener to these paints is advisable? And if so, what kind of hardener and how much would I use?

Thanks!!!!
 
Its been discussed on here many of times,
In short is it advisable? its the best thing you can do and it costs you nothing. Use 1 OZ of any clear activator (only) per mixed quart.

There are two companies that say do not used, HOC and there is a copy company in Mississippi don't remember their name that say no.
I know why they say that, as its how the base is made and for that reason alone, I would not use on my lawn mower.,
 
So no hardener with HOK?

HOK is the most recognizable name in the custom painting business. Recognized by both those in the painting game and the general public. It's used by artists all over the world to create fabulous pieces of rolling art.

What might you share with us, from a chemical standpoint, that we are unaware of?
 
None of my business really, one of two things their statement tells me, R&D is totally ignorant or they have left out an item so the iso will not have anything to react with.
Its none of my business as they make it they should know.
 
Beobob;n82065 said:
So no hardener with HOK?

HOK is the most recognizable name in the custom painting business. Recognized by both those in the painting game and the general public. It's used by artists all over the world to create fabulous pieces of rolling art.

What might you share with us, from a chemical standpoint, that we are unaware of?
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You should pose that question to the HoK forums rather than question advice given you by the owner of SPI... You should also read through this forum to get a better idea of who you're interacting with. Lastly there's really no need to try to school anyone about another product.
 
The only reason i gave the warning is because, I assumed you did not know not to activate per their instructions but other bases OK.
 
Hey Ray... I know who is helping me out here, and that he is indeed helping me. I have posted this same question to 3 forums today and Barry is the only one who has responded with the knowledge to tell me what I need to know.

So Barry, what you are saying is that HOK leaves out of their BC formulation what the hardener would typically bond to/react with. And therefore any added hardener would just be extra, unused chemicals in the paint.

I can't find in their tech sheets where they say do not add hardener, but it doesn't say you can either. Thanks for the advice.
 
Kirker sells an activated basecoat, their mix is 4:1. The only suggestion I have ever heard of adding catalyst to basecoat has been adding a cap full per sprayable quart. So you are not talking about alot of catalyst. The reason I take that with a grain of salt is everyone knows you should be adding a catalyst before you add the reducer. I almost look at the kirker stuff as leaving something out of the basecoat blend and having it in the activator blend. Do not know if its true or not, but its alot of catalyst. Maybe I will spray some some day to see if its "better" or just junk paint.
 
That's OK. Now I know not to catalyze HOK base coat. But in general the rest are 1oz. per sprayable quart. The info is much appreciated.
 
bob, i used hok for years, every day. its not a bad paint but its not great either. dont mistake a well marketed product for a high quality one. just like any paint company they have good products and bad. i have no problem using some of their stuff still today but in general i stopped using their stuff on a daily basis about 7 years ago. there are just far better lines out there. you can mix any of their colors right off any mixing rack and have it cover twice as good. for your question though, i have always activated hok. while i dont know how much reactivity there actually is in the bases but catalyst doesnt necessarily need to react with the base to work. catalyst hardens on its own. take the cap off a qt of cat that you have used, gotten some in the threads and sat on a shelf for a few weeks. its turns to rock hard plastic. it will still do that within the paint film over time. with no reactivity it might not give the full benefit but its gonna add something.
 
Your right Jim, if a product has no re-activity the activator will help some,"" IF not to much is used"". 8 or 9 years ago BondoKing on here has a bunch of old lacquer he mixed together and wanted to
paint some tool boxes or cabinet's (forgot) I figured up the amount of activator to use, even though there was no OH, it was a high side of max and we were relying on the iso to kick on its own, the draw back??? I told him it could take 2-5 days to dry depending on a lot of factors but would be a lot stronger.
This is why as a rule most companies will say 1 oz per mixed of base, as some bases can handle 4 oz and most 2 oz but here are a couple that 1oz is max but we don't care as just a little activator does so much good, we are splitting hairs trying to get it exact, so better safe then sorry.

The rip off scam, buy a base activator and all it is a iso with reducer and the only benefit is they can say add 10% or 20 or 25% to make it easy.
We had one at UTECH, when I was there and mandated its use at 25%. (back in early 90's)
 
Barry;n82087 said:
The rip off scam, buy a base activator and all it is a iso with reducer and the only benefit is they can say add 10% or 20 or 25% to make it easy.
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This kind of information is very valuable. Who would've known?
 
Bentrustynail;n82089 said:
This kind of information is very valuable. Who would've known?
Click to expand...

Thank you, the most frustrating part is I know too many people in chemical sales and paint manufacturing across the country, so when I hear BS its all I can do to keep my mouth shut as don't need to invite trouble, so I do avoid many subjects, unless I get pissed. LOL
 
Barry;n82090 said:
Thank you, the most frustrating part is I know too many people in chemical sales and paint manufacturing across the country, so when I hear BS its all I can do to keep my mouth shut as don't need to invite trouble, so I do avoid many subjects, unless I get pissed. LOL
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We should piss you off more often lol.

We all appreciate when you share interesting stuff.
 
I learned more in this thread than I have in a very long time.

Getting it down to "brass tacks" in an easy to understand manner really helps.

I wonder what pisses Barry off...
 
I love this forum!!!! My shop uses diamont. RM instructs 2 ways to catalyze base for different uses. Using the clear hardener for interior parts which creates a very hard, durable coating or what I just learned from Barry, the "scam catalyst" bch2 which is to be clear coated. I was wondering what the difference was.
 
haha the bch2 hardener. i had diamont for about 8 years. there isnt any difference between those hardeners, their clear hardener or any other. they are all just iso. the concentration may change but they are all basically the same. they have one dedicated for base so they can have the software add it into the mixture by weight. if they left it to the painter to just add whatever amt, brand or type of hardener he felt like then that would be no good so i do see why a paint company that warranties their product does this. it doesnt leave any room for error or interpretation for the painter. the formula says add 10.6 grams of bch2 then thats what you do and the exact right amt of iso is being added to the base. on the flip side if you are a competent painter then you should know a little chemistry and be able to handle grabbing a qt of any clearcoat cat and 1oz per qt of base and save yourself $140 on a qt of specialty basecoat hardener.
 
Jim C said:
haha the bch2 hardener. i had diamont for about 8 years. there isnt any difference between those hardeners, their clear hardener or any other. they are all just iso. the concentration may change but they are all basically the same. they have one dedicated for base so they can have the software add it into the mixture by weight. if they left it to the painter to just add whatever amt, brand or type of hardener he felt like then that would be no good so i do see why a paint company that warranties their product does this. it doesnt leave any room for error or interpretation for the painter. the formula says add 10.6 grams of bch2 then thats what you do and the exact right amt of iso is being added to the base. on the flip side if you are a competent painter then you should know a little chemistry and be able to handle grabbing a qt of any clearcoat cat and 1oz per qt of base and save yourself $140 on a qt of specialty basecoat hardener.
Click to expand...
I'm still learning. Was a prepper/helper for 6years then cut in parts all day for 2 years. now a painter at a restoration shop. Never been to certification class although I continuously ask to go. I have a few questions about diamont if you don't mind.
 
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