1969 GTO Deja Vu

[BrianS]

Not really sure where to start this thread since it is a restoration story and has a question attached, hopefully I can get some good advice on where to go from here. Pretty cool story, about 10 years ago I was able to recover my 69 GTO from HS. I purchased it in 1980 from the original owner and sold it when I went in the Navy in 1982. Very long story I won't bore you all with but I drug the car back out to California from Missouri and went to work on it. At the time I was living someplace when I really couldn't do the body and paint work so I was forced to farm that part of it out. Even longer story but 3 body shops and 3.5 years later I finally got it home painted and was able to finish it. As soon as I completed the assembly I noticed some of the paint peeling, then the first time I pulled it out and hit it with the pressure washed the paint job washed away down my driveway. The shop blamed PPG but agreed to repaint the car and PPG did supply more base/clear. The shop was a small start up shop and I know the kids Dad so being the nice guy that I am I pressure washed the clear off and as much of the base as I could and then took it out to his shop. I also hung around the shop and helped sand the balance of the base off the car and help him prep it for paint. Here is where I get my thanks-I knew the kid was overwhelmed so I gave him a couple of months and then stopped by the shop. The GTO was right where I left it the last time I was out there sanding. I promptly loaded it on my car trailer and now it is back home. I have been waiting to get the Road Runner painted and sitting on tires so I can move it around and then I will bring the GTO into the garage and paint it-Sort of Deja Vu-I painted the GTO when I was 17 now 40 years later I am painting it again.

Here is my question-I am not sure exactly what the kid used as primer ect prior to painting it last time and quite frankly it really doesn't matter since it was obviously no good. As I mentioned PPG gave me a gallon of Verdoro Green Metallic envirobase along with a gallon of Vibrance clear. Where would you guys start? As of right now I have it blocked with 220 and it is sitting waiting to get the RR out of the garage. I have a gallon of SPI 2k Primer left from the Road Runner so should I shoot it with that and them seal it with SPI epoxy? Or do it the other way around-seal with epoxy then the 2k? Or scratch both of those and do something else. I am wrestling with what to do about the clear as well, I have the Vibrance but I could probably sell it to my neighbor and order some UV clear. Advice would be appreciated.

 

[dhutton01]

Which pics are the current state of the car?

Don

 

[BrianS]

Which pics are the current state of the car?

Don

Here she is waiting patiently for the RR to get out of the garage. I know it is not the recommended method but I was concerned about some of the exposed metal so right when I got it home I walked around with a brush and a cup of epoxy making sure all bare spots were sealed.

 

[dhutton01]

So there is the previous base and clear under the primer that is there now? Just trying to understand what you are trying to paint over.

That being said all of the previous work needs to be removed from the car, not just where it failed imho…

Don

 

[BrianS]

The base and clear was pressure washed off back down to primer. Under the primer/filler you see is epoxy.

 

[dhutton01]

Hopefully one of the pros will respond but I would put it all in epoxy before applying any 2K primer within the epoxy recoat window. Still risky since you don’t know what that primer is. Absolute correct way is to take it down to bare metal and start over imho.

Don

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Something of potential value like that GTO, the only way to do it correctly is to strip it to bare metal and start over. Anything other than that is asking for trouble.

I would not use the Envirobase if you do not have a paint booth. Even in a low humidity environment it takes longer to flash and you will be fighting dirt and dust nibs. Use a solvent based basecoat if you are doing this in a non booth or homemade booth.

 

[crashtech]

I only wish to second what Chris says. Start from the bottom with SPI epoxy. Easier to say than to do, for sure, but otherwise the risk of future problems (again) is pretty great.

 

[BrianS]

Thanks guys I figured that was really the right answer I was just hoping for something else. It seems the body work on that car has fought me from day 1. The second body shop blasted it down to bare metal. The third one did the same because they didn't trust the other shops work and rightfully so. Now I am looking at getting it back down again. This time though the car is fully assembled so it is a little more complicated, hand stripping work for sure.

That's too bad about the envirobase since it is not cheap and I already have it.

 

[dhutton01]

In California you can only get waterborne basecoat afaik so you are in a bit of a pickle for home spraying imho…

Don

 

[crashtech]

I thought that there were some compliant solvent systems coming about. I don't live in an area that has strict VOC mandates, though.

 

[texasking]

I would think the waterborne would work OK in a dry environment like the southwest, but I have never used it and don't plan to. Down here it would never dry without the right equipment.

 

[BrianS]

I thought that there were some compliant solvent systems coming about. I don't live in an area that has strict VOC mandates, though.

There are some solvent based based VOC compliant base coats, I used some on the door interiors. Funny thing is I picked up the base at Finishmaster and then the other paint store told me the hardener was not compliant. The paint laws are almost as complicated as the gun laws in this state and change daily. I live in BAAQMD territory and they are like the gesapo of air quality. I could go on for hours with the fines they hit me with on our construction sites over dust blowing in the wind. Heck even one time they sited me for so called asbestos in the air mingled with dust (we were required to have air monitors on the fence). We went back to the web cam and it was raining like heck all that week and the site was ankle deep in water-they still won and we paid several thousand in fines.
Anyway I will either order paint from Chad like I did on the RR or try to find a paint booth. I have to admit that gallon of envirobase is super expensive and I am having a struggle with seeing what is probably $1200+ go out the window. The cost of paint was included in the cost of painting the car last time but the kid that painted the car referred to it as liquid gold. I know I picked up a pint for the Endura bumper and it was $178. Just thinking about it now as I type I could probably prep the car and then take it to the kids Dad's shop (he does my blasting for me) and have him shoot it in his booth-there is probably an 80% chance he will do that as long as I take all responsibility for the paint. He would probably let me mask and get it ready so he can just stroll in like a surgeon and shoot it. Something I can think about.

 

[crashtech]

I don't know anything about water base, so it would be unwise of me to make any comment on its usage. However, the question does come to mind whether the waterborne base was used in accordance with procedure the first time around. It doesn't seem to have adhered.

I think if you settle on using the waterborne base, you'll have to seek more advice regarding its use, and ensure that the guy spraying it knows what he's doing. I don't know who here on these forums has that kind of experience. Not many, that's for sure.

 

[Chris_Hamilton]

Envirobase TDS :https://www.tascoautocolor.com/uplo...high_performance_waterborne_basecoat_2_18.pdf

It is definitely not something you want to spray if you don't have a lot of experience. I do have quite a bit of experience spraying solvent base and after reading the TDS it is clear that it is not something I would want to spray without some training first. They also require a specific sealer designed for use under Envirobase.

If you do decide to go an alternate route, all is not lost with that $1200 worth of base. Put it on Ebay and you should be able to recoup a large portion of that.

 

[BrianS]

Envirobase TDS :https://www.tascoautocolor.com/uplo...high_performance_waterborne_basecoat_2_18.pdf

It is definitely not something you want to spray if you don't have a lot of experience. I do have quite a bit of experience spraying solvent base and after reading the TDS it is clear that it is not something I would want to spray without some training first. They also require a specific sealer designed for use under Envirobase.

If you do decide to go an alternate route, all is not lost with that $1200 worth of base. Put it on Ebay and you should be able to recoup a large portion of that.

I have been thinking about it quite a bit this weekend and I do not feel comfortable with the envirobase. I did call Chad today and priced a gallon in Motobase and it was not that expensive for a gallon. Not cheap but cheaper than sanding the car down for the 4th time if the envirobase fails again.

 

[1A Rock]

I have to know what is a BAAQMD?

 

[crashtech]

I believe it is "Bay Area Air Quality Management District."

 

[BrianS]

I believe it is "Bay Area Air Quality Management District."

Correct

 

[BrianS]

I finally finished up the Road Runner and shuffled cars around so the GTO is back in the garage. Hard to believe it has been "in waiting" for a year but with the supply chain issues parts for the Road Runner were hard to get but finally here we are and I will try to do a better job posting than I did with the Road Runner. I got in today and started pulling the front clip and getting a good look at the work the "resto/custom shop did and I am sure his ears were burning. The filler on the deck lid was 1/4 thick, I should of taken a pick before I blocked it down but as usual I forgot but I was shocked. It just didn't feel right and so the more I blocked it the more curious I became until I finally grabbed a course disc and cut it down to bare metal in a couple of spots and saw how thick it was. The pic I posted is after I sanded most of it off. Looks muck better now and it is less than 1/16 in the thickest location. I took pictures but it is hard to see but on the fender they just beat the high spots down and filled them. You can literally see hammer marks in the inside of the fender. Totally ridiculous. The part that really got under my skin was I did a fair amount of body work to the car before I took it out there. That fender was fine I specifically remember working that high spot out. I am starting to see why his Dad fired him from his shop, wish I had known Dad fired him BEFORE I took my car to him but he lied to me and told me he chose to go out on his own. Looks like this is going to take more time than I anticipated since I have to repair the shops work. We will see what tomorrow holds when I pull the other fender.