Help with choosing Eagle Abrasives paper

R

rsss396

Newbie
so I have decided to go with Eagle Abrasives Dry system that many here use.
I have a 31 ford coupe that i have done with SPI single stage black I did each piece in 2 steps with 3 coats sanded flat and layed another 3 coats. some parts have no peel to a some peel on others. had a few runs along the way with a few pieces.
so what I have understand many are using the Tolex and Buflex discs wet in the later stages using a DA with a soft interface pad.

I am a little confused as what to start with, I would prefer to do the first grit step with a hard block by hand.
I beleive the Assilex sheets are designed for 2.5" x 4.72" blocks whick I could make some oak pieces that size or buy the foam block they sell I am afraid that will not be my best choice tring to straighten panel out from any kind of wave,sag or drip.

seams like i should just use the 3M wet/dry paper in order to have a 11" long hard block in any problem areas and use the Assilex foam pad on the other areas that just need the peel taken away.

I have been on the eagleguys web site and it seams like the Assilex sheets are my only choice for the 800-1200 grit ranges
seams like allot of guys use lemon(800) and orange (1200) but there is a lime (1000) shown on eagle abrasives web site. doesnt seam like eagleguys carries it though.

I am starting from scratch so this is going to be a pretty expensive order and I hate to order up a bunch of paper that doesnt get used. Have also though about the 3" discs and whether they are worth getting also for both hand and machine use. I am willing to buy anything needed for the sanding and finishing but since I am just basicly doing this 1 car I want to make the right choices.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
Dave
 
rsss396 said:
so I have decided to go with Eagle Abrasives Dry system that many here use.
I have a 31 ford coupe that i have done with SPI single stage black I did each piece in 2 steps with 3 coats sanded flat and layed another 3 coats. some parts have no peel to a some peel on others. had a few runs along the way with a few pieces.
so what I have understand many are using the Tolex and Buflex discs wet in the later stages using a DA with a soft interface pad.

I am a little confused as what to start with, I would prefer to do the first grit step with a hard block by hand.
I beleive the Assilex sheets are designed for 2.5" x 4.72" blocks whick I could make some oak pieces that size or buy the foam block they sell I am afraid that will not be my best choice tring to straighten panel out from any kind of wave,sag or drip.

seams like i should just use the 3M wet/dry paper in order to have a 11" long hard block in any problem areas and use the Assilex foam pad on the other areas that just need the peel taken away.

I have been on the eagleguys web site and it seams like the Assilex sheets are my only choice for the 800-1200 grit ranges
seams like allot of guys use lemon(800) and orange (1200) but there is a lime (1000) shown on eagle abrasives web site. doesnt seam like eagleguys carries it though.

I am starting from scratch so this is going to be a pretty expensive order and I hate to order up a bunch of paper that doesnt get used. Have also though about the 3" discs and whether they are worth getting also for both hand and machine use. I am willing to buy anything needed for the sanding and finishing but since I am just basicly doing this 1 car I want to make the right choices.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
Dave
Click to expand...

I'm thinking your safest bet could be using old school 3M or Norton wet sandpaper for the initial cut. Say 1000-1500/2000 grit. Some people make blocks out of balsa wood with rounded corners and edges.

I'm not sure how flat of a finish you could get with the Assilex because it's designed to be used with a very fine velcro foam backing, plus the fact that is more expensive than regular wet sandpaper.

The pink Tolex could be a nice step in between to start with the DA then finish it up with bufflex green then black.

It's hard to start with the heavy grits dry sanding with a DA and avoid pigtails in the finish if you've never tried it before.
 
Page 5 Jim C. http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/lets-talk-sanding.3482/page-5

I tried Tolecut yellow orange pink trial pack full sheets (tiny sheets though) Yes expensive.
Its a plastic sticky back not velcro no give on hard block. I used piece of pvc 2x2, rounded edges, half sheet fit perfect.
I did scratch the bleep out of clear in a few places cause i had dirt in the clear. Garage job.

Pink cuts quick, if i get more tolecut it'll be next finer then pink. Cuts quick. Loads quick too on large area, wipe on pants.

Can't use it wet, would be nice.

Eagle if you're listening- please redo your site! So confusing.

Edit-- scroll down in link to his long reply. Good stuff.
 
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I have never used a DA for topcoat sanding so I thought waiting at least until the Tolex (1500) step I maybe a little safer.

My first cut grits are the most confusing, I have read guys using the lemon with orange peel but then Jim says the orange cuts very aggressive, almost like a 400 but with 1000-1200 scratch.

I have to say I don’t like hard(oak) sand blocks that are very long because it hard to use all of it on a car like mine. Something around 8-9 would be nice but that will be a problem with the assilex

I to question the ability for a paper with the hook and loop system being able to flatten real well, seams like the eagle website wants a interface pad for their assilex sanding blocks also
 
rsss396 said:
Don’t understand why Eagle doesn’t offer PSA or even a plain back dry sanding 800-1000-1200 paper
Click to expand...

PSA paper will get you to pigtail city very fast, it would me a major f-up.

With DA sanding you need the proper interface pad, very clean environment and a light touch. I've done the Eagle Yellow disks 1000-1500 and it's 50/50 that I will be pigtail free. That's why I said start with 3M wet sandpaper first, then refine with bufflex green and black. That seems to be safer and a good compromise for speed and not killing your arms sanding by hand.
 
I did not mean for the psa to be used on a DA, I meant for use on a hard block.
I do like the idea of sanding dry for the first sanding, that’s what caught my eye about Eagles Dry System
Just seams like there system has a hole in it if you are blocking by hand any corrections in the paint on the finer grits
Seams like the Tolecut would be perfect if they made it in psa rolls or larger sheets
 
On other previous paint jobs I always hand blocked with hard and soft pads using the 3m paper 800-1000-1200-1500-2000
But I sure do hate wet sanding and have been guilty of not sanding enough in the finer paper to remove all the previous scratches
I was hoping the Tolex and Buflex on a DA would help with that problem.
 
if i was you and you want to hand sand then i would just wetsand with regular wet/dry. i would end that process with 1000-1200 then go right to the pink tolex or assilex discs which are 1500, then green bufflex and your done. i personally like to dry sand my first step because you can see when you have everything out. your only going to dry sand the clear with a da and a softpad with eagle yellowfilm or the 3m finishing film. that has always worked really well for me but if you sprayed the clear where you have some urethane wave then hard blocking like you want by hand is the only way to really get that out and that will have to be wet. trying 600-1200 dry with psa paper is just going to load up and you going to burn through a ton of it.
 
Thanks Jim
No clear, just 6 coats of spi single stage black (tinted production clear I believe going by the hardner used)
Not sure yet I really have any urethane wave(nothing jumping out looking at it in the garage) but I for sure have some orange peel and runs in some areas that will need attention.

I understand typical fine grit wet/dry paper would be a pain with the paper loading up sanding dry, but what is confusing to me is Eagle sells the Assilex line with hand sanding blocks and paper and is marketed as a dry system.
They do show a interface pad even for the foam assilex block but I wonder how well it would level typical orange peel.
I understand it would never work on urethanwave or runs but if it could be used just to knock down peel than I could just address the runs,sags or waves with 3m wet paper

I guess had had my heart set on doing the first sanding dry, but I just don’t have the right experience to make the right call. To totally honest the DA scares the crap out me since I have never tried it on top coats before. And even if I was able to do a good job the are allot areas a 6” disk is going to be tough to use, so it seams like I would still be hand sanding
 
your not going to do the first sanding dry unless you use a da with a soft pad. anything else is going to clog right up or give you inconsistent scratches. you can use the assilex wet. the orange might be a good grit to use wet by hand on one of their blocks. it would load right up on clear or ss if you used it dry. you could go from orange wet by hand then go right to pink or tolex on a da. see i am just the opposite. i like the da dry because i can see when to stop sanding. i know as soon as the orange peel is gone. with wet by hand i feel like i could go through or make thin spots and not even know it. its like your sanding blind. been dry sanding top coats though for 20 years now so its just what im used to. to each his own though. no right or wrong way to do it.
 
I know exactly what you mean about sanding dry especially on a gloss black color, so easy to see when all the peal is gone. I just have never done it with fine grits only 400 when sanding down top coats between paint sessions.

Thanks for your thoughts maybe I will give the dry da a shot, maybe even try the 3” for tighter areas
 
just remember that what you sand you have to buff so tight areas that you get with a 3" sander may be tough to get a buffer to. da dry you will need the eagle yellow film discs. start with 1000 then just goto wet tolex
 
Great advice given.
And to clarify, i only used tolecut for runs & a few sags after taking them down some with wet 3m.
Dry was cool after i buffed car out and saw what run, sags needed a little more fine tuning.
With hard block & shiney finish, them imperfections sure showed up.
Honestly pink cut faster then necessary for fine tuning which is why i'll get next finer to try next time.
 
Thanks Eddie,
I went ahead and made my order today from eagleguys
ordered the
- yellow-film 6" disk in 1000 grit
- pink tolex 6" disk
- green buflex 6" disk
- Black buflex 6" disk
- Pink tolecut psa sheets
- tolecards

going to try the dry yellow-film with the DA, I will just go at it real slow until I get a feel for it

I am still painting pieces for the car but hopefully by around thanksgiving i should be sanding, will keep everybody updated.
thanks for all the advise from everyone!
Dave
 
just be sure to use a soft interface pad with the yellow film. yellow film takes a min of sanding before it starts cutting. there seems to be some type of glaze on the discs that has to wear off before it really gets down to the abrasive. run your da at 1/2 speed.
 
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Jim C said:
just be sure to use a soft interface pad with the yellow film. yellow film takes a min of sanding before it starts cutting. there seems to be some type of glaze on the discs that has to wear off before it really gets down to the abrasive. run your da at 1/2 speed.
Click to expand...

Been a longtime avid reader here and finally signed up. I have read a lot of your posts and like your approach and methods to finishing clear. I just picked up some eagle 1500 yellow film with Interface pad 971-0042 and Buflex black with interface pad 971-0063. I am sanding the peel flat starting with the 1500 yellow film dry on DA followed by the Buflex black wet. hoping this works out?

Also what’s a ball park on the longevity on the yellow film and black Buflex? So far I’ve used 10 yellow film
disks to do rear and one side of 1934 Chevy coupe.
 
jayc welcome! im not so hot on the black bufflex. its ok but for some reason it seems to wear out fast while the green lasts and lasts. i think the black bufflex will be enough to work the 1500 scratches out while its brand new and super sharp but as soon as that dulls slightly i dont think it will cut those out. 1500 yellow film is ok to cut the peel down but i will usually start with 1000 and get it 80-90% knocked down then switch to 1500. its faster and saves alot more paper as the 1000 will last alot longer. i have refined my process even more lately and do 1000 or 1200 yellow film dry then use tolex wet for the 1500 step then green bufflex wet. green bufflex is supposed to be equal to 2000 but i find its about the same as finishing with 3000 trizact. if for some reason i feel the need to go finer then i will use 5000 trizact instead of the black bufflex because that stuff cuts for a super long time.
 
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