How to fix this lifting?

J

jeepermat

I am losing my mind over this issue.
I painted the car in July, cleared with SPI UV Clear, started buffing and nicked an area where the quarter meets the roof.
Sanded it down, and hit it with a bit of epoxy, then with my base, it would lift every time where the epoxy met the clear.
Tried elevating the panel temp to ~95F, finally got the base to lay down without lifting, in my opinion it was due to more time vs the heat on the panel, I waited nearly 3 months before getting it to lay down.
I then layed down a coat of clear and didnt like the way the repair looked, so I sanded it down and am now trying again to blend the base in, however you can see in the photo below that I have a major issue where it lifted the new clear pretty much everywhere it contacted.
The Clear is 72hrs old, it sat in the sun for 2 days before I sanded it back down.
I raised the panel temp to 95F again, but that didnt seem to help.
I am using MS Pro Base, and SPI medium reducer, this is the first coat I layed down, and put it down pretty light.
What else should I do here?
IMG_0342.jpg
 
What are you spraying the base over? Is the base lifting the clear? You sure you activated the clear? Correctly? That is some nasty cooked up area. Only thing that I can think is you are sanding the lifted area then recoating. Which then causes more lifting. Did you originally take it down to metal or is there old paint underneath? You need to completely remove everything that is lifted and take it out further beyond the lifted area. Anywhere you see lifting needs to be taken to metal.
 
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a bit of epoxy ????? a thin layer of reduced epoxy will lift easily. med reducer may be at fault also. my guess is your dealig with a lot of thine layers .
 
Something is wrong, that's for sure. I am suspecting that the clear under that was not activated properly, or the activator was old.
 
The clear was purchased in June, should still be good. I mixed it the same as I mixed for the rest of the car without issues, the only thing I did was add about .25 parts reducer to help it burn into the old clear.
I sanded it down and hit it with a light coat of epoxy, i am going to sand on it some more tomorrow to blend the epoxy in then try some base again after getting the panel a bit warmer. I tried some different lights today and can get them to 100-105F.
 
Your issue has nothing to do with cure time. Properly activated clear can be sprayed over in as little as 12 hours. Heating the panel isn't going to help what you are experiencing. You'll have more issues tomorrow if you just sanded it down and sprayed a light coat of epoxy.:rolleyes::eek:
 
I shot the whole side of the car with the same batch of clear that lifted here, it seems to have setup just fine everywhere else.
I dont believe it was in the mixing of the clear, or its age. It has been stored at 60-80F since it came in the mail back in June, I ran out and checked and I still have equal parts left, so I am 100% confident it was mixed correctly.
I was reading in the blending in of small repairs thread that Barry mentioned he elevates the temp of his panels to ~105 to help with this issue, which is why I thought it might help me.
 
I think you need to sand the entire area completely down to the starting point and do it again. You are chasing a disaster. And don't use blender there are times that it can cause more harm then good relatively fresh paint dosen't need it and blending a big area is a no-go in my book.

Blender is best left for the small areas that you are blending off the paint/clear like a windshield post, rocker, narrow part of the sail panel etc.
 
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Once you have lifting, only real way to repair it is to remove the lifted material not just sand. I can't emphasize that enough. It will lift again when you spray or once everything has completely cured it will show up in the finish. If you don't want to do it the correct way the only thing that I think will help your situation is if you use a true waterborne primer, something with no solvents in it. Sand the area well with 180 then apply 3-4 coats of waterborne, block it and proceed with paint. Keep in mind this is not the correct way to do it, but if you are not willing to do it correctly this will work....for a while at least.

Are you using blender????? If so why?
 
Blend the color, clear the panel. Novices should stay away from the blending solvent. Only a few rare instances when even a Pro needs it.
 
Once you have lifting, only real way to repair it is to remove the lifted material not just sand. I can't emphasize that enough. It will lift again when you spray or once everything has completely cured it will show up in the finish. If you don't want to do it the correct way the only thing that I think will help your situation is if you use a true waterborne primer, something with no solvents in it. Sand the area well with 180 then apply 3-4 coats of waterborne, block it and proceed with paint. Keep in mind this is not the correct way to do it, but if you are not willing to do it correctly this will work....for a while at least.

Are you using blender????? If so why?
I sanded it down to the previous base coat and even into the old 2k in some places, I got rid of the clear that had lifted. Still think that will be an issue?
 
The bad news is that whatever is under there is being dissolved by the solvent you are spraying on top of it. I doubt very much that it is the clear that is lifting since it seems to be just fine on the rest of the car. Chances are you sanded through the old clear and the base under it wasn't activated so it is lifting. The clear is just sitting on top of the lifted substrate so it comes up too.
 
Like everone said and to do 100% strip to bare metal and start over BUT in the fast collision world there are ways around this. Sand down to good base or primer then a few good coats of epoxy and yes heat on the panel will help as to force dry the solvents before it can react with the base coat. let dry or cure out and proceed with base and clear. Again this is a band aid fix and NOT for your car!! Shine touched on something " a thin coat " I think the reducer in your base ate right thru the thin coat of epoxy. Good luck and hate to say this but this will help you become a better painter...............happens to all of us.
 
OP said that the wrinkling happened on top of clear that wasn't broken through. That's how I read it, anyway.
 
OP said that the wrinkling happened on top of clear that wasn't broken through. That's how I read it, anyway.
This is correct, where you see the lifting was clear over old clear. When I applied the base over this area to blend the base in a bit better I got the mess pictured. Where I broke through the new clear did not lift at all- this is the upper area in the photo.

For this reason I am not sure how to properly fix, for those saying I must take it down to metal and start over- where does that end? I am afraid that if I do that to the lifted area I will just continue to chase the lifting when I apply the blend the base beyond the repaired area over the existing clear again.
 
Also I am using non-activated base, too late to switch now without basing the entire car again.
 
Take it down to metal in the offending area, take it out a little farther all around the lifted area so you know 100% that you got it all. If you have to redo any filler work in the area, just to speed things up you can do it over the bare metal. Then 2 to 3 coats unreduced epoxy,minimum 30 minutes flash between coats, 1 hour would be better. Let it cure for 3 days like Shine said, sand and shoot. If you let it sit in the sun for a day or two that would be ideal.
 
Take it down to metal in the offending area, take it out a little farther all around the lifted area so you know 100% that you got it all. If you have to redo any filler work in the area, just to speed things up you can do it over the bare metal. Then 2 to 3 coats unreduced epoxy,minimum 30 minutes flash between coats, 1 hour would be better. Let it cure for 3 days like Shine said, sand and shoot. If you let it sit in the sun for a day or two that would be ideal.

10-4. Ill go give this a shot. Thanks for the advice here!
 
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