Buffing lacquer, is it the same as urethane?

elwood

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I've got a 30 year old lacquer finish that needs buffed out. Been in storage since it was painted in 1990. It's never been buffed out. It's got 3 coats of ppg lacquer. Would this be the same as a modern topcoat or would I need different compounds. Never buffed lacquer and always heard it was different. Any tips appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
Last I've ever done, I'd say it's a bit softer than modern stuff, but I've always found it easy to work with. One chemical difference with lacquer is that solvent will chemically rewet & bond to itself when recoating as opposed to mechanical adhesion only . I've actually got denatured alcohol damaged lacquered furniture cleaned up & shinier with lacquer retarder & a rag with a proper technique.
Some detailers like to coat old lacquer or enamels with meguiars#7 glaze once or twice 1/2 day or so before beginning to buff to supposedly soak into material & require less dead paint removal. Never tried that, just read it. I would consider trying that & definitely go easy & slower on buffing speed with no firmer foam than needed starting with a very mild compound before getting any braver.
Not sure how thick what you're saying was 3 coats was, but particularly with older lacquers, they were thin as crap back when hand rubbing 30 coats of lacquer was a thing. I have in the last few years used Lenmar precat lacquer on interior doors & furniture 3 coats thick & & it was thick enough to handle some buffing if needed.
 
3 coats of lacquer probably equals 1 coat of universal, depending on how much thinner was used. 150% up to 300% was not uncommon Even on collision work back in the day, 5-6 coats was normal. Lacquer buffs easy, and you can burn an edge before you can blink. The compound we used was much grittier than modern compounds, though. As jl suggested, be very careful with the aggressiveness of pads and compounds, maybe even starting with what you would use to polish urethane. Not much material there to work with.
 
I'm with Shine. I can not imagine any laquer paint job being only three coats. I would not start buffing anywhere that will show until I was convinced there was enough paint to buff. I have my doubts.

In the old days of acrylic lacquer I would not think of going less tha 6 coats and normally would shoot 4, block with 600, shoot 4 more and then color sand and buff. We frequently buffed after color sanding with 600. It was a whole different world in the 70’s.

John
 
Last lacquer job I did in 1989, put 10 coats on and still managed to rub through some edges. I was still kind of a rookie back then , but still, it shows how thin lacquer is. Sure buffs out nice and flat, though.
 
Thanks for everyones advice. Not sure what I will do. If I could find a high quality lacquer clear, I may just reclear it. Problem is I haven't been able to find anyone who makes a quality lacquer clear. Nothing really wrong with it except it has lost its gloss over the years.
 
Back in the 70's painters were putting urethane clear over lacquer color all the time.
I never heard of a problem doing it that way.
I still have a car magazine with a cover story show car done that way.
 
Thanks for everyones advice. Not sure what I will do. If I could find a high quality lacquer clear, I may just reclear it. Problem is I haven't been able to find anyone who makes a quality lacquer clear. Nothing really wrong with it except it has lost its gloss over the years.

If you check around at various PPG Jobbers you may still be able to find PPG DCA468. That is the Duracryl Acrylic lacquer clear. I know that PPG discontinued the Acrylic Lacquer color but I think they are still making the clear. If so that would be the one you would want to use.

I gotta stop by the PPG Jobber today. I'll ask about when I'm there. Let you know what I found out.

EDIT: Didn't make it to the Jobber today, I'll check on it in the morning when I'm there and report back.
 
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I'd love to get my hands on some DAU82 to clear a lacquer job, it was a low-medium solids urethane and buffed out with no wave.
 
Reading this brought back a lot of memories! 125-150% slow thinner, retarder, Binks No.7, finest wet paper was 600, hand rubbing. Things sure changed. On a straight color the surface (lacquer primer) was 400 wet, 5-6 coats, leave for a few days, 600 wet then 2 more coats with slow and retarder. Wait as long as possible, then hand rub, no wet sand. Flat, smooth and deep shine. Best I can remember anyway.
 
Another warning is in order. A urethane clear can be put over laquer.....kinda. The modern urethane reducers are so hot they will soften the lacquer causing it to "crawl" or move under the clear. I did it twice. Got it done both times but not without issues. I would not attempt to do it again.

John
 
The first urethane clear I remember designed to go over lacquer or enamel was DAR 75 (I think) in a yellow and white labeled can. It used DXR80 enamel hardener and buffed harder than anything I ever used. Of course, I was finish sanding with 600 before the paste in a gallon can compound. I don't even remember a finer grit being available. That clear was also recommended over bare aluminum after an acid treatment on peeling Corvette wheels. I sprayed the intake on my Camaro with that clear in 1990 and it is still on there.
 
I'd love to get my hands on some DAU82 to clear a lacquer job, it was a low-medium solids urethane and buffed out with no wave.

First vehicle I ever painted was with DAU82. Think they called it "Del-Glo"??? Back in 1990. 1986 Toyota Turbo (factory) 4x4 PU. It was an Insurance total that I rebuilt. Being 18 and stupid I did that thing on the open shop floor with a dust mask for lung protection. Stupid. I remember it sanded out really easily and buffed really nice. Actually looked really good when I got done. Dumb luck I guess. I loved that truck though. Lot of fun.
 
First vehicle I ever painted was with DAU82. Think they called it "Del-Glo"??? Back in 1990. 1986 Toyota Turbo (factory) 4x4 PU. It was an Insurance total that I rebuilt. Being 18 and stupid I did that thing on the open shop floor with a dust mask for lung protection. Stupid. I remember it sanded out really easily and buffed really nice. Actually looked really good when I got done. Dumb luck I guess. I loved that truck though. Lot of fun.
Sprayed lots of DAU 82, even remember when the DAU2 hardener went away for a while because of an isocyanate plant blowing up in India or somewhere like that. It was replaced by DAU2G, and it wouldn't dry. PPG tried a few iso free products in the late '80's, early '90's, and they all sucked. I think the problem with spraying lacquer now may be trying to find a quality lacquer thinner to go in it. I'm sure 876 and 105 are long gone:)
 
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If you check around at various PPG Jobbers you may still be able to find PPG DCA468. That is the Duracryl Acrylic lacquer clear. I know that PPG discontinued the Acrylic Lacquer color but I think they are still making the clear. If so that would be the one you would want to use.

I gotta stop by the PPG Jobber today. I'll ask about when I'm there. Let you know what I found out.

EDIT: Didn't make it to the Jobber today, I'll check on it in the morning when I'm there and report back.
I will check with the stores also. That sounds like the way to go. Thanks to all who gave good advice. Lacquer was on it's way out when I started so I never got to work with it. Everything was 2k and base clear.
 
Elwood are you totally sure it's lacquer? I can't imagine going to the time and trouble to prep and tape a car only to spray 3 coats of lacquer and leave it there. Lots of people used to use the term lacquer very loosely...
 
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