I am not a pro but I can say that every SPI product I have used outperforms every other brand I have used, I love Euro and Universal clears they are all I use on everything I do. I can say that this forum and all the knowledge from guys who are not shy about helping others has been my go to for every problem I run into.
dhutton01
Backyard Hack
Not trying to turn this into a rant but maybe this can be a heads up for guys looking to make this their profession. For me everywhere I've worked has been the same story, incompetent mangers/owners doing as little as possible, passing responsibility down the chain,, and never ending rush deadlines. I've worked commission at a Shop where they (management) were writing 2 sets of estimates. The actual one, and one for the employees. They would shave 30% or so off the actual estimate when you got the work order. Worked at that place over a year before I found that out. You have to be really careful working commission as I have heard from other guys that is more common than you think. A common theme I've found is dishonesty. Others would call it lying. To the employees, to the customer. Shortchanging the Customer on the repair. Getting chastised when you object to doing that. One Shop I was at Owners wife handled the payroll. She would shave your hours unless you made sure you totaled them yourself and wrote it on your timecard!
I've decided I've had enough. I haven't had a real vacation for over 7 years. I'm almost 47, been doing it fulltime since I left college after 2 years (Lord how I wish I stayed and got my degree) I'm not going back to late model collision repair if I can help it. Got enough savings to leave my job and am going to work out of home for a while restoring then selling a car that I have. We'll see how that goes.
Building cars to resell for profit is tough going imho. It’s easier to make money building cars for customers in my experience. If you do build a spec car make sure you research the market for the car you are restoring and establish your budget and build plan before you begin.
Don
L
LuxCar
Still the case cause most shop owners won't pay guys what they are worth, work the crap out of them and still want more. At least every shop that I've worked at has been like that. I'm going to be leaving my job soon. Can't get here quick enough actually.
Bit of a broad brush there. "Back in the day" when I had my shop, bodymen and painters were paid 50% commission on all the work they did.
Out of the 50% I got to keep, I had to pay ALL supplies and paints, the mortgage/rent, insurance, utilities, all advertising... simply put, all of the expenses were mine (including trying to pay myself), and for much of the time when I was in business, my bodymen and painters routinely made more than me.
Additionally, we (shop owners) were constantly having to fight with insurance companies who set our rates based upon "the norm" that they claimed to have discovered on their own.
It was for those reasons that I left the business after more than two decades. I woke up at 45 years old and realized that the future I was trying to build was instead heading toward a nightmare.
60% of my business was Corvette collision repair and complete paint work, and I got tired of delivering top quality work (did some car show work along the way) but having to compete (rate wise) with the Earl Scheib's of the day. Just a few years after getting into my next business (not car related), my income was more than 5 times what I made in my best year with my body shop, and by the time I retired, I was at an income level that I had NEVER dreamed of achieving any time in my life. While I enjoyed working with cars all those years, I should have quit beating my head against the wall years earlier than I did.
This is all my take as an owner, not as a technician, and as an owner decades ago when the industry was different, so I don't want any of the technicians today to get discouraged by my experience.
Retired now in a way that I would have never been able to achieve had I stayed in the car business, working on cars is fun again because I don't have to pay the bills doing so.
Chris_Hamilton
Trying to be the best me, I can be
I hear what you are saying Don. Who knows I may crash and burn but I gotta do something and makes some changes. If I wait for the perfect time that will never come. So I'm gonna do this car take it to some shows and get my name out there. Plan is to eventually build a shop on some land at my home. Car has enough value and I've accumulated most of the parts needed over the last few years, so I feel it'll work out. I'm debt free and have saved a little so I'll be ok.
Chris,
I know many of friends who have done this for years and made a lot of money doing it, you just need to find a specialty and do it right.
One had a three car garage at home and made a ton of money bought house on lake and then paid big bucks to build a state of art body shop, five years later can't say his words here but sold and went back home so he could make money.
One retiree just builds 50's trucks as restro rods to the tune of about 1 to 1.5 a year and they always sell the first major show he goes to, I personally saw three guys fighting over one a few years ago and he does not even put a for-sale sign on them.
I know many of friends who have done this for years and made a lot of money doing it, you just need to find a specialty and do it right.
One had a three car garage at home and made a ton of money bought house on lake and then paid big bucks to build a state of art body shop, five years later can't say his words here but sold and went back home so he could make money.
One retiree just builds 50's trucks as restro rods to the tune of about 1 to 1.5 a year and they always sell the first major show he goes to, I personally saw three guys fighting over one a few years ago and he does not even put a for-sale sign on them.
anotheridiot
Member
Its tough, but getting out there is what establishes you. I dont know if its two or three cars to have around so people see the quality. That is where the budget goes.
I thought Joe Miller was the top bike guy in the country, down in texas, will rehab an old caddy and sell it for 50k or build a bike and sell for 50k, Big difference when you get known for something and his work on both is top notch.
Starting with something that is in demand in your area is the key.
I have a customer from our industrial shop wanting us to finish his mustang after seeing our "hobby" cars. But how do you start with something that "just needs paint"? Nobody wants to start over questionable work.
L
LuxCar
Chris, there is no crash and burn as long as you love the work and can pay bills doing it.
Just keep an eye on your long term goals and take note of milestones along the way that indicate you're on course to achieving what you want.
'68 Coronet R/T
Oldtimer
Chris,
I never intended to do work for customers. I was simply going to restore my '68 Coronet R/T for myself. However a guy with a beat up '65 Buick Special convertible offered to pay me to restore his car. Being totally ignorant of this business I thought it was a way to make some extra money to get parts for my Coronet.
Well after the Buick was done, the guy comes back with a 1967 CJ5, so I doubled my rediculously low labor price of $10 an hour (I did mention I was ignorant about the buisness) and then came the guy's friend with a F-250 so I upped the labor price again, then a 1990 Miata gets unloaded into my driveway. I had no idea what was going on, so I asked the truck driver and he said he was told to bring to me from California and gave me a name and number. Turns out to be the brother-in-law of the guy with the Buick and CJ and he wants a total restoration.
Anyway, I have never advertised or sought for work and have customers on a waiting list. My point being, a guy with your experience and know how, will have absolutely no issues getting work. Restore your car, take it to a few cars shows and the work will start pouring in. Then if you want to sell the car go ahead.
I had no idea shops were paying body men and painters hourly now. It makes sense, must be how these how these big production shops cater to the insurance companies and still turn a profit. They just screw their employees. I've seen some of the work coming out of a particular "chain store" and had one of my long time bodymen go to work there. He told me the painter never put more than 1 coat of clear, colors rarely matched, and his redo rate was almost half. He must be hourly or he would be broke. On restoration jobs I learned never to give the customer a set number. If they want a ballpark, I give them a very broad range. It's hourly + material until it's done, paid on Fridays, that way neither one of us gets too deep in a hole. You give them a set number, you will never complete their wish list. The people that don't agree with the terms will usually be trouble, anyway. I have gotten a feel for the customers I will enjoy working for, (after MANY hits and misses), and have been lucky to have met some really nice people that are repeat customers and refer other nice people. If you don't like what you are hearing when talking to them the first time, trust your instincts and pass, even if you need the work, you'll be glad you did. There are a lot of people looking to get cars restored to sell and make a profit off of you. Avoid those at all cost. Only do the cars the customer wants to keep and preferably has some sentimental value, those are the best.
L
LuxCar
Since I'm the one who started this thread, I thought I should post a pic of my main project, the '75 Corvette I've had (as second owner) since 1980.
Clearly with the partial restoration underway and a bit ugly now, I'll be more enthusiastic once I finish replacing all the body mount cushions and all the undercarriage and suspension is rebuilt and painted.
I happen to just love it's original color (Code 27 Steel Blue) so it of course will be repainted the same.
The plan is to finish all that, then paint, then the new interior and top goes in and on.
That vent window in front of it is the '67 Austin Healey 3000 that's next in line for resto. I'm also the second owner of it and have had it since about 1982. There is some question as to whether I'll live long enough to complete these two, but I'll die trying.
Clearly with the partial restoration underway and a bit ugly now, I'll be more enthusiastic once I finish replacing all the body mount cushions and all the undercarriage and suspension is rebuilt and painted.
I happen to just love it's original color (Code 27 Steel Blue) so it of course will be repainted the same.
The plan is to finish all that, then paint, then the new interior and top goes in and on.
That vent window in front of it is the '67 Austin Healey 3000 that's next in line for resto. I'm also the second owner of it and have had it since about 1982. There is some question as to whether I'll live long enough to complete these two, but I'll die trying.
Attachments
Nice shop Lux! I feel your pain on the vette, check my build thread on DC forum for some ideas. https://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164292
rdransman
Promoted Users
Very cool project! The last year for Corvette convertibles, or so they thought at the time. Looks like you have a great shell to work with, so that's a plus! Good luck with it!
Chris I am at a place that you hope to be in. Had a large collision shop and sort of burnt out and sold. Now have nice shop on my property and just myself doing a few old cars fliping a few and some collision work. Do have a frame machine so can make some income pulling for other small shops , local garages ext..... It will be different not receiving a pay check every week!!! And like Shine has said " don't treat your money like it's yours" pay all your bills first. Old car market here in Pa is strong but have to know market. We are all here for you
Just delivered the '83 chevy truck today. Been working on it since late March. This is the second body restoration I've done for this customer, both similar trucks. He did them for his sons who are in the military. When he got to the shop, I was in the paint shop and didn't realize he was there. When I saw him and his wife they were circling the truck looking it over and I went over to greet them. He was literally speechless, but his wife said they could not believe it was the same truck. I assured them it was, and we talked for a while about what I had done before going in the office. He was holding back tears when I told him the last payment (which wasn't much) was on me, and to thank both his sons for their service. He said I had gone above and beyond on the truck, tried to give me more money, but when I refused, said he would relay the message. These are the kind of people that make going the extra mile completely worth it. They paid over what the bill was every time, on time, never questioned anything, never even came to the shop until it was finished. These are the moments that make owning your own shop worth it, and something you never get working for someone else.
John Long
Member
My problem was not getting cheated. Never happened. My problem was not lack of work. Shop was never empty. My problem was I laid awake at night worrying about whether the customer would understand the hours I had in converting a '53 f100 filler pipe to a gas door or similar modification.
For me, I decided the cars needed to be a hobby, not a career I went back to work for another company and back to being able to leave the job behind when I walked out the door.
It is odd how we all have different needs and goals for emotional satisfaction. I really admire the guys who own their own businesses but I don't envy them one bit.
John
For me, I decided the cars needed to be a hobby, not a career I went back to work for another company and back to being able to leave the job behind when I walked out the door.
It is odd how we all have different needs and goals for emotional satisfaction. I really admire the guys who own their own businesses but I don't envy them one bit.
John